Meta desc hard length limit

[weeblr]

Pull Request for Issue #36939 .

Summary of Changes

Removed all instances of client-side meta description hard-coded limitations to 160 characters.

Testing Instructions

A character counter appears, and input length is limited to 160 characters, when editing the meta description for:

• a category
• an article
• a menun item
• a contact
• a tag
• a newsfeed item
• the Global Configuration

Try to enter a description longer than 160 characters.

Actual result BEFORE applying this Pull Request

The counter, corresponding message and input length limitation are present, and your input text is truncated to 160 characters.

Expected result AFTER applying this Pull Request

The counter, corresponding message and input length limitation are removed. Your input text is not limited to 160 characters.

Link to documentations

Please select:

• Documentation link for docs.joomla.org:

• No documentation changes for docs.joomla.org needed

• Pull Request link for manual.joomla.org:

• No documentation changes for manual.joomla.org needed

[carlitorweb]

Is not a expected behavior?

[brianteeman]

If you are going to do this then you also need to remove charcounter=true and the shortandsweet javascript

[weeblr]

@brianteeman correct about charcounter, did this online at Github.com for speed.

About the script, did not touch that, don't think it's loaded if there's no charcounter=true or maxlength, right?

[brianteeman]

if this is the only place the script is used (it was at one time) then it should be removed

[weeblr]

@brianteeman That involves updating Rollup config files, modifying javascript patches file(s) and then probaly touching the CMS build configuration. I won't delve into that.

[brianteeman]

personally I would prefer to see the character count functionality remain (changed if necessary) than simply deleting it.

[weeblr]

Why?

[brianteeman]

why?

because a character counter was a requested feature from the SEO team. Since when do we simply delete features instead of fixing them.

Anyway this PR is not complete and doesnt do everything required to remove the character counter from the textarea

[carlitorweb]

But I still not see what need to be fixed here? Text truncated to 160 characters is how should be.
This character counter is useful in this field. I meet several users who use it in their site.

[weeblr]

@brianteeman

Since when do we simply delete features instead of fixing them.
Removing the feature is the fix. There's no limit on description. Any character count limit is an error.

@carlitorweb

Text truncated to 160 characters is how should be.

The only limit on description for display on a SERP is from device width, which is not something that can be related to a character counter - in addition to being changed by search engines very often. And importantly, meta description is not often used in serach results, at most 20 to 30% of cases.

To help search engines understand the page content and intent, longer descriptions are likely better. At least, there definitely is no 160 characters limit.

I meet several users who use it in their site.
That does not make it the right thing to do.

Anyway this PR is not complete and doesnt do everything required to remove the character counter from the textarea

I have updated it remove the charcounter=true attribute. It's complete enough to fix an issue in Joomla. Not going to fight on this very long.

[Septdir]

The character counter isn't that bad. But there should be no limits in the meta field.

This is the choice of the site owner, or rather the requirements of a particular SEO specialist. I have seen cases when they demanded that there be no more than 50 characters, but more often 250 characters.

Moreover, the limit may depend on various facts, the options are not excluded when in one category 160 in another 50 and in the third 250, so setting a limit in the component or global params is also not the best choice.

Now very often you have to remove the limit.

[carlitorweb]

The only limit on description for display on a SERP is from device width, which is not something that can be related to a character counter - in addition to being changed by search engines very often. And importantly, meta description is not often used in serach results, at most 20 to 30% of cases. To help search engines understand the page content and intent, longer descriptions are likely better. At least, there definitely is no 160 characters limit.

Thanks for the explanation. Then if we can make the user pre-define the max of characters this field will have, is better than delete it. I not agree about longer descriptions, but is just a personal opinion.

[simbus82]

@carlitorweb

Is not a expected behavior?

Forcibly prevent the inclusion of a meta description greater than 160ch?
With a third-party script?
No, it's a crazy thing that has forced us to make changes to the admin template of every J4 installed in recent months... absurd!

Text truncated to 160 characters is how should be.

Where? 3 years ago con mobile meta desc shown by google was 220char long.
It is a data that can always change, it cannot be fixed in a CMS

And a meta desc can be complicated to writre maintaining the right persuarive tone and a correct view in the serp. Lot's of times a meta desc should be write more long than 160ch, and keeping the various descriptive and persuasive parts in those 160chs, and reaching out for further info which, in any case, is also used trivially by feeds for external services.
There is not only Google.

And Yes, char counter is VERY useful (my issue didnt say to remove it), not the limit in the field.

Then if we can make the user pre-define the max of characters this field will have, is better than delete it.

This is what should have been done from the beginning, I super agree! It was enough to make it settable, but in any case a hard coded insertion limit should NEVER be placed in a CMS.

[weeblr]

@Septdir

The character counter isn't that bad. But there should be no limits in the meta field.

From what I read elsewhere, I understand this particular counter cannot be "just" a display counter (may be wrong on that, have not checked). Having just a char count display "advising" has to be re-developed, which is not something I want to get into. In addition, such a counter would not be really useful if does not provide guidance - no use knowing I have 143 long description if I don't know what length is good or bad - and then we're back to square one where we need to define the threshold(s) - and possibly make them user-defined.

@carlitorweb

Then if we can make the user pre-define the max of characters this field will have, is better than delete it. I not agree about longer descriptions, but is just a personal opinion.

But now we have another setting, which will need a default value, etc and that default value will change over time

[carlitorweb]

Forcibly prevent the inclusion of a meta description greater than 160ch?
With a third-party script? No, it's a crazy thing that has forced us to make changes to the admin template of every J4 installed in recent months... absur

What I meant is the result. I agree with you the way of get the result is not the best approch.

This is what should have been done from the beginning, I super agree! It was enough to make it settable, but in any case a hard coded insertion limit should NEVER be placed in a CMS.

I think what should do a CMS is give the option, and end-users decide them if use it or not.

I still not agree about longer descriptions, even if search engine not used enough (but still, is used). If you want longer "description" you can define a "introtext" as long as you want, and the search engine will use it more as part of the content.

[brianteeman]

Judging by the original issue and comments here the fix for the issue is NOT removing the count but instead is removing the limit.

[weeblr]

Maybe but I won't get into that so if this is the consensus, I'll close this PR at this stage, no need anyone spend anymore time.

[simbus82]

I think what should do a CMS is give the option, and end-users decide them if use it or not.

I still not agree about longer descriptions, even if search engine not used enough (but still, is used). If you want longer "description" you can define a "introtext" as long as you want, and the search engine will use it more as part of the content.

Meta Descriptions aren't signals for a search engine, but they are fundamental to get a click from users in the SERP (thanks to their persuasive or call-to-action effect), they are important for the CTR (click-through-rate), and this (the CTR) is really important for positioning a website in search engines.
From otherside, you and me are not in the "mind" of Google, so the part of Meta Desc shown in the SERP snippet can change everytime by date, by device, by location, by google login status, etc.

[weeblr]

but they are fundamental to get a click from users in the SERP (thanks to their persuasive or call-to-action effect), they are important for the CTR (click-through-rate), and this (the CTR) is really important for positioning a website in search engines.

Barely. Google changes the meta description you wrote about 70% of times. Not based on date or device but just to highlight what their users are searching for. The snippet is not about what you think about your content, it's about helping the searcher figuring it that page is worth - for them - clicking on it or not. Portent study - AHrefs study.

And these studies are 2 years old, since then GPT-like Google tools have become even better at describing things, I would not be surprise meta description - as written by site owner - is used even less than 30% of times.

Anyway: there's no point in having a counter if limits are not provided, how are you going to know where you need to stop?

I did this so that the counter is removed. If it's not removed, then it's a different solution to the problem linked in the related issue, that needs to be discussed there.

[simbus82]

Anyway: there's no point in having a counter if limits are not provided, how are you going to know where you need to stop?

Right, in part. It's really clear that you don't work on these tools on a daily basis (I mean creating and compiling content for your customers): try opening the page and trying to write the sentence you have in mind in the box (which will also be longer than 160ch), and then rework it until it complies with the "recommendation" of 160ch (or whatever).
That's all :-).

I know how Google behaves with meta rewriting, but that data also arises from a lack of clustering of the types of pages on which the metas are "extracted" from the content.
Everything works very differently when you do e-commerce, for example, Google rarely rewrites the meta of a listing, and only does it if the CTRs are really bad, i.e. when the meta is either not there or it sucks :D

Anyway, Thanks for making this pull request, I really appreciate it.

From my personal point of view, the character counter is still a good "advice" for those who insert content.

[weeblr]

try opening the page and trying to write the sentence you have in mind in the box (which will also be longer than 160ch), and then rework it until it complies with the "recommendation" of 160ch (or whatever).

I do write descriptions on a regular basis, surely not as often as you do.

Simply, I do not care about that 160 characters limit. I write a description that describe the content of the page and that's all. I surely rewrite them a couple of times maybe when reading a second time, but certainly not to try and match any character count.

Agreed, e-commerce or catalog-style websites, are going to be different, at least when talking about original, original products (ie not resellers websites)

From my personal point of view, the character counter is still a good "advice" for those who insert content.

How? if you don't set a limit, hard or soft, how would a normal user know what to do with the counter? Is 70 good? or 140? or 320?

If we add an indicator, it must indicate something that's usable. If not, it's better to remove it, because it adds confusion.

it if the CTRs are really bad, i.e. when the meta is either not there or it sucks

Which brings another, separate point, that writing meta description is actually super-hard and few people can do it. I know you see a lot of websites, but I do too and I strongly believe in many cases I've seen, it would have been better to let Google write up their own description. Which they likely did.

[Goncharov82]

I also faced the problem of limiting the number of characters in the Description field. I found a solution. Change the value in \file administrator\components\com_content\forms\article.xml

In line 211, the maximum length="XXX"

But this is before the first update, and after the update again the limit is up to 160 characters. But the full description is displayed on the site.

[pcombet-adosis]

In line 211, Change the value in \administrator\components\com_content\forms\article.xml
The maximum length="XXX"

@Goncharov82
Thanks. I confirm, the update does fix the problem in Backoffice and Frontoffice. It allows to write as many characters in Meta Description as you want.
Best,
Philippe

[BothmaC]

Hi

Thanks for all the comments, but do we really need to prove a point here to try and convince the Joomla Dev Team.

This hard limit set on meta descriptions is totally unasked for and irresponsible of the Joomla Dev Team. You are a CMS Dev Team and not an imposer of recommendations by Google. Various parts of the meta can be taken by Google for display and now, where are all my truncated meta descriptions? Then I can continue of where Google can also take their snippets from... Again, "everyone", including myself and top SEO's has limited understanding of Google's complete algorithm.

Kindly refrain from doing this. I can buy my own SEO Tools and decide if I want to follow their recommendations or not. What next? A Heading 2 is not allowed here or there, or an article is truncated or an article is deleted, because I am quoting from another article and am breaking the copyright on my own website. Hope I was able to bring my point across.

I have the latest version of Joomla 4.4.0 and my meta's get truncated.

Please can someone just stop doing this or do I need to go to WordPress only, since half of my SEO clients are on that platform already.

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_{This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/39598.}

[Sieger66]

For Joomla 5 it is fixed with #41795